the choker collar for Training

[Kimeliz71]

Hi everyone! I have a question. I recently read an artice that stated choker collars should not be used for any reason. They can cause more damage to the throat than anything else. It absolutely forbid it. (see it below>>>)

A Well-Named Device : the Choke Chain:
Not for the novice, and not recommended at all, the choke chain comes in dead last in this collar comparison. Studies have shown extensive trachea and neck injuries from improper use of this collar. It does exactly what it's name implies, it chokes, and if your dog is a puller, it chokes continuously. If used at all, it must be used by an experienced trainer.

In the articles entirety...It suggested using a prong collar or even a harness..Im confused because I know for a fact that harnesses are not good at all for training purposes, especially for training dogs not to pull on the leash(which is what I am training Sadie not to do)because it uses more body strength and gives them more weight control. Sadie was found with only a choker collar..she has a pink vinyl one but for training we ARE using the choker collar..Sadie seems to be learning and doing very well, but am really I HURTING her by using this? Im sure if you use the collar incorrectly it can or may cause damage..but we are careful and follow the training tips, using this type collar, correctly. What do you guys think?

[fuzzdomestic]

You can cause damage with any sort of training device. A well-fitted choke chain used properly can be a helpful training tool, but it is not for every dog, just the same way prong collars and harnesses are not for every dog. One big issue I have with this article is that they don't seem to know how to properly use a chain in the first place. You ABSOLUTELY do not use a choke chain to choke a dog. You use light bumps on the collar to bring the dog back into the range of the leash so that they learn to walk on a slack leash. Choking a dog does nothing but damage. There are a few reasons I like the choke collar as a training aid. First off, it makes noise. The dog associates the noise with a correction and you can correct the dog very easily without anything physically happening to the dog. I personally prefer to use the lightest linked chain I can because you get more of the little clicks in the amount of chain you take up. Although I know prong collars are necessary for a few dogs (I've only seen one that couldn't be trained using a choke chain coupled with positive reinforcement) they do not make that warning noise. Second, it is harder for a dog to tell whether they have the chain collar on, making it much quicker and easier to transition onto a nylon collar, which, in my mind, is the goal of training loose lead walking. Most dogs can tell when they have a harness or a prong collar or a head halter. Although they can be transitioned onto a nylon collar, it's not quite so simple. In my personal opinion, the choke chain is a good training aid if used properly.

I've worked with dogs that have trachea injuries and in my experience they're caused at least as often by people not training their dogs and simply letting them slam into nylon collars as by people misusing chain collars. I don't have any scientific evidence, simply what I've seen. Maybe I'm in a different part of the country than the people who misuse chains, but this is how things look to me.

There's one little thing I have to add on the end. A harness can be a great training tool for a dog that responds well to vocal corrections. I worked with this little Pit Bull, 35 pounds at the most, who was incredibly powerful for her size. She was the usual thick-skinned APBT, so she didn't care one bit about collar corrections. Rather than risk trachea injury with her, I tried a harness. She slammed into it once, I did one of those correction growl things and from then on, all I had to do when she was getting to far ahead was use a deep "hey" and she slowed down. Don't judge a training aid until you've tried it.

[Kimeliz71]

Sadie is 45lbs and does respond well to vocal corrections. I, myself would rather use a harness. Thanks for clearing that fact up for me.
Sadie does not only pull on the leash, but when she sees another human or animal she goes nuts trying to get near them. In return, constantly choking her self. I would actually feel better using a harness but I do want our training sessions to be most effective. Would you suggest I stick with the choker because we have already started the training process or would it be ok to switch?

[fuzzdomestic]

I don't see a reason not to at least give it a try. Take her out two or three times to where ever you think there won't be too many destractions and see how well she listens to you.

[dragongsd]

Harness are use in sled dogs so they pull more.
Halti's work for some dogs that are softer, but restrict their faces some.
Choke chains were made to mimic what the mom dog
would do to the pups to teach them to behave.
If used right choke chains work well.
On tuffer dogs prong collars may be necessary.

[fuzzdomestic]

Normally I agree with you, dragongsd, but some of your facts are fairly oversimplified. Harnesses are used in sled dogs to distribute the weight properly. If you've ever actually seen a pulling harness, they are not at all similar to a walking harness. If you were going to have a dog pull a sled with a walking harness... let's just say it wouldn't work so well. I really don't understand how chains mimic the mom. I have yet to see a bitch correct a pup by encompassing its entire neck and pulling. They also don't tend to make clicking noises as they correct the pup.

[Drazhar]

choke chains damage trachea, its because the way that the chain tightens up around the neck and its so narrow that it really digs in.

harnesses are great, i dont know what you talking about dragonsd, a pull harness is so very different and is set lower for optimal pulling, wheres when you use walking harness it set perfect so that if the dog pulls it will just pull the front of the dog up in the air so he/she goes nowhere.

haltis work on many many many dogs.

prong collars are mostly for tougher dos yes, but come in all sizes for many breeds, also have to be fitted correctly, (as high up the neck as can be and tight) and these are wider set so they dont stick in to the neck so much and so sharply as the narrower choke chains....bit like snow shoes vs regular shoes in deep snow.

i use a harness on my bandog and a prong collar on my perro de presa canario.
great sucsess with both.

[Working Dog]

I use a prong collar on my GSD for training purposes and when we go for walks. I've tried buckle collars, choke collars, gentle leader (that went into the trash real fast) and finally settled on the prong collar. I agree that you need to find out what works best for your dog based on its temperment. As a side note, and this is my personal opinion so take it for what it is worth, I think that if you use a choke collar on a dog, you should replace it with a prong collar. The choke collar administers a correction to a narrow spot on the dogs neck and usually it is in the same location. The prong collar administers a correction to a wider area on the dogs neck. One thing I did that made me realize a prong collar is not as harmfull as it looks was putting it on my arm and giving a fairly strong correction to my arm. It was not as bad as the choke collar was.

[huskies r perfect]

I've used prong collars on my sibe and sibe/GSD, and they learn quickly and correctly. I've heard that choke chains can cause neck damage, and there was only one person willing to argue the point with me. (And she argues with anything anyone says.)